87s hånd

Denne hånd er taget fra Ciaffone og Briers Middle Limit Holdem bog. Jeg kunne godt tænke at høre jeres kommentar til hånden. Jeg poster deres kommentar senere.

A $15-$30 Game. You are in the cutoff seat with the 8h7h. Two early players and a middle player limp. You limp, as well as the small blind. There is $90 in the pot and six players. The fop is 7d 5s 3s, giving you top pair. Both blinds and the first early player check. The next player bets and the middle player calls. What do you do?

Nu har jeg aldrig spillet 15/30$ så hvordan det er oppe i de lufltag skal jeg ikke helt kunne sige...

Men her ville jeg raise... Jeg har top par og vil gerne gøre det dyrt for dem der er på flushdraws... Ham der better ville jeg netop i denne situation sætte på et flushdraw... Den middle player der caller hans bet kan måske også være på et flush draw eller et middel par såsom 88 eller 66...

Det der ville bekymre mig mest her, er hvad SB og BB kan finde på at sidde med, men de ville nok også have budt postflop hvis de havde en god hånd. Synes det er farligt at slowspille en hånd såsom 2 par eller trips her med både et potentielt flush og straightdraw derude...

Som sagt et reraise... Får jeg så modstand ville jeg tage hånden derfra...

Mvh Mika

Jeg har læst bogen, men jeg kan ikke huske denne quiz, så mit svar er givet ud fra hvad jeg normalt gør i denne situation.

Et raise er ofte den bedste mulighed, men overfor en tight modstander, er et fold heller ikke skidt. Du kan allerede nu være bagud til et overpar, og der er helt sikkert nogle draws ude, som vil kunne skade dig. Hånden bliver meget svær at spille på turn, da over halvdelen af kortspillet sådan set er scare cards.

Havde du modstanderen HU ville det være et nemmere raise. Med positionen vil jeg dog raise overfor en standard modstander.

/Mikael

gå med billigst muligt, hvis den når rundt igen og der skal betales to, ville jeg smide.

Og så raiser jeg iøvrigt ethvert turncard, der ikke er en spar, og så checker jeg efter på river med mindre jeg rammer trips, straight eller to par.

Det er et klart raise, men I vanlig Ciaffone og Brier stil, så anbefaler de vel et fold. De to er gode til big bet poker, men deres mid-limit bog har altså ikke fået mange gode anbefalinger.

det er sgu da pudsigt...

forumserver.twoplustwo.com/showthreaded.php?Cat=&Number=1599763&page=0&view=collapsed&sb=5&o=14&fpart=1

Det er en god bog de har skrevet, men som Nomanson skriver, er den visse steder lidt for weak tight. Der hvor den virkelig vinder, er de mange hand quizzes der efterfølges af gennemgangen af hvert enkelt spilområde. Men som sagt - ikke altid aggressiv nok. Hvis man læser Middle Limit Holdem og Short Stakes Holdem samtidig tror jeg man får en rigtig ballast.

Du har god position og top par. Den her hånd skal raises. Det vil med stor sandsynlighed skubbe blindsene og den første limper ud af hånden, og dermed øge ens potequity.

Answer: Fold, Top pair, no kicker is a loser in a sixhanded pot with a bettor and a caller, despite the 8 to 1 pot odds. You are usually playing three outs at best, and an eight complements the board, making a straight possible for one of your numerous opponents.

Lad mig starte med at sige at Nomanson ikke har ret i at bogen har fået gode anbefalinger. Har læst en anbefaling af Mason Malmuth hvor han roser den meget og siger at den er en af de bedste limit bøger, der giver en kanon indgangsvinkel, men at der er lidt for meget fold i anbefalingerne.

Grunden til at jeg postede denne hånd er, at jeg som de fleste andre her mener at det er et raise. De fokuserer meget på at holde sig ude af problemer, men jeg mener helt klart at der er +EV i et raise her. Deres argumentation er ikke langt væk, men de overdramatiserer problemerne lidt efter min mening. Tak for de mange input.

Blandet anmeldelse her fra www.jetcafe.org/~npc/reviews/gambling/

Forresten en side jeg synes der burde laves et fast link til her på siden, da den har nogle af de bedste og oplysende boganmeldelser jeg har kunnet finde på nettet.


"Bob Ciaffone should be familiar as a poker columnist and the author of several excellent poker books. Jim Brier is a columnist for Card Player magazine who is known for writing quizzes specifically about mid-limit Texas Hold"em. In Middle Limit Holdem Poker these two authors team up to write a book focusing on detailed play of hands in, you guessed it, middle limit Texas Hold"em poker games.

The book begins by discussing some basic concepts regarding Holdem poker. Even though this is background, it"s immediately clear that this book targeted at experienced players. The authors assume that the reader is not only familiar with the game, but also with a significant amount of poker strategy. This is not a book for beginners. In my opinion, it"s not even a book for intermediate poker players. The concepts presented in this book are geared toward experienced Hold"em players.

Middle Limit Holdem Poker continues with sections about the various decision points in a Hold"em hand. Sections cover preflop, flop, turn, and river play in considerable detail. Following this are two sections titled "Special Topics", which deals with issues like bluffing, slow playing, free cards, etc., and "Non-Standard Games" which covers short handed play, hands in which players post, and Holdem games that have unorthodox structures among other topics. Each section begins by providing some basic strategic concepts before moving on to extensive quizzes concerning the topic in question. The book concludes with tables presenting the mathematical expected outcomes of some common confrontations and a glossary.

I didn"t count the total number of questions in the book, but it"s certainly several hundred. The book is thick for a poker book, and densely written. It"s been quite a while since I"ve read a gambling book that took me as much time to read as Middle Limit Holdem Poker. Certainly, in terms of concepts per dollar, the reader is getting an excellent value. Fortunately, this book is also clearly written. There is never any ambiguity about each lesson the authors are trying to impart.

While I consider Bob Ciaffone to be among the very top echelon of poker writers, I found myself disagreeing with a larger share of the information the authors provide in this book than in others he has written. Of course, I can"t think of any good reason why anyone should prefer my recommendations to those of the excellent players who wrote this book, but I believe that more of the specific recommendations made in this book are debatable than in, say, Improve Your Poker. The authors do state that if circumstances are changed even a little, then the right way to play a particular hand might change significantly. I also certainly agree that just changing minor details about a hand, such as the number of callers or a player"s position, can drastically alter correct strategy, and the authors do a fine job of representing many of these cases. Despite this, the distinctions between some of the situations described in the book is often pretty fine. I would have liked to have seen some sort of rating system to explain which plays the authors think are a "slam dunk", and about which plays they might be less certain.

After some of these questions and answers the authors relate what was the final result of the hand in question. Invariably, the actual events support the authors" contention about how the hand ought to be played. While this is fine for educational purposes, I found this level of certainty to be tiresome after a while. Just once I would like to have seen the authors write somethi

@Gene

En eller anden dag må du vise mig den der "Short Stakes Hold Em". Den kender jeg ikke ;-)

@Thomsen

Ja, det var pussigt. Det er næsten syndt, at forfatteren til indlægget ikke selv ved, hvor godt hans play er i den situation.

/Mikael

Malmuths begrundelse for at der er for meget fold i den bog er vist mest en frygt for, at man bliver løbet for meget over ende, hvis man spiller mod de samme hele tiden. Han har ikke noget mod alle foldene isoleret.

I øvrigt vil jeg da gerne melde mig i fold lejren. Jeg er sandsynligvis oppe mod et overpar eller en syver med en bedre kicker og et spar eller strittræk (og der er action bag mig), og så kan det ikke betale sig at fortsætte. Jeg ville dog nok ikke være i stand til det ved bordet. Der ville jeg nok tænke A5 og et spartræk og forhøje for at få overkort ud.


Kim

@DTM
Short Stakes Holdem er fortsættelsen til Small Stakes Holdem - den er ikke helt på højde med 1´erne, men sådan er det jo altid med fortsættelser ;o)