Forbud mod Sharkscope?

Eftersom PokerStars har forbudt brug af sharkscope og andre dataminingprogrammer har jeg nogle spørgsmål:

1) Hvordan vil det blive håndhævet?

2) Går andre sites i deres fodspor?

3) Er HUD's, PT osv næste skridt?

4) Er det godt eller skidt for online poker?

Hvad er Jeres tanker?

WTF ?

Grinder gerne sharkscope samtidig med Stars.

Har jeg sgu aldrig hørt noget for.

En ven har fået følgende besked i dag fra dem i dag:
img241.imageshack.us/my.php?image=pokerstarshmmdu0.jpg

forumserver.twoplustwo.com/search.php?searchid=6123927

omfg, I don't get it :S

@Zeus84

Har du læst tråden på 2+2?

Hvis ja, er du så ikke en gutter at smide to-tre clifhangers?

Hmm, mon ikke der er folk som vil kunne snyde lidt og bruge det alligevel? Der er nogle som nok skal få den edge alligevel. Hvorfor ikke bare tillade det for alle?

Your Email has been escalated to me for additional review and comment.
Thank you for your patience in awaiting my reply.

The following mini-FAQ answers many of the common questions players are
asking about our policy as regards SharkScope and sites like it.

Q: How can SharkScope be prohibited software when it isn't software?
It's only a website.

A: The policy under which SharkScope is prohibited covers this. We
define prohibited software as programs or databases, and specifically
include websites that contain prohibited data as being themselves
prohibited.

-------------

Q: Why is this considered an unfair advantage? I'm just looking up stats
on whether a player is a winning player or not....

A: Part of the game of poker is in learning about your opponents' skills
and tendencies through game play against them. We believe you should
not be able to come to a game pre-armed with information about your
opponents if you have never played against them. Thus, we explicitly
permit tools that are based upon your own hands played (hand history
analyzers, HUDs and such), but prohibit tools that are based upon
"datamining", or the gathering of hands in which you did not play.

-------------

Q: Why are some sites similar to SharkScope permitted, while SharkScope
is banned?

A: We have drawn a clear dividing line between what a site can show and
what they cannot. Without a player's permission, a site may only show
gross winnings. Net winnings, or ROI, or profitability, may only be
shown if a player opts in and gives explicit permission for his data
to be available to others. In other words, a site can show that you
have cashed in 35 events for prize awards totalling $26,115, but it
cannot show that you entered 511 events and are a net loser over time,
unless you grant permission.

Those sites that have agreed to this policy are not prohibited. Those
sites that have refused to comply with this policy, are prohibited.
Among those sites that have agreed to our policy, that are or very
shortly will be working on an opt-in basis for ROI, and thus will
eventually join the list of permitted programs, are:

officialpokerrankings.com
thepokerdb.com
cardplayer.com

------------

Q: I'm only using it to check my own stats, or looking up players on
another site. That's OK, right?

A: No, it is not. We don't track who you are checking up on. We only
note the access of the website, and don't make a distinction between
who is being looked up, or what site a lookup is for. Any access
to SharkScope while the PokerStars client is running (even to look
up a player on another site) will result in an automated warning.
Any access to SharkScope to look up data on a PokerStars player
(even yourself, even if the PokerStars client is not running) is
prohibited.

Those that want to track their own stats are advised to acquire a
hand history analysis tool, such as PokerTracker, Holdem Manager,
Poker Office, or any number of other explicitlt permitted programs
into which your own hand histories may be imported real-time as
you play. We are happy to provide any player that asks with a copy
of every hand they have ever played on PokerStars.

------------

Q: Can I use SharkScope to look up players before and after my games,
or when the PokerStars software is not running?

A: "Teacher, can I cheat on my exam when you're not looking?"

Just because we aren't watching at the time does not mean that the
rules are suspended. The purpose of the rule is to prevent players
from having information that they should not have, and the rule still
applies before and after the games, difficulty in detection and
enforcement notwithstanding.

------------

Q: Doesn't that mean that someone without scruples and willing to break
the rules by hiding their use of these tools will gain an advantage?

A: Perhaps in the short term. PokerStars remains dedicated to enforcing
a fairness policy equally and to all players. A player that tries
to "stealth" his use of prohibited tools runs the risk of losing his
account and possibly the funds on deposit if they are found to be
in wilfull and knowing violation of our terms. We will continue to
improve both our detection methods and our means of preventing data
gathering in order to keep the playing field as level as can be.

------------

Q: Then why don't you just block SharkScope from gathering the data in
the first place? Why warn the players, when it is SharkScope that
is in greater violation to begin with for gathering the data?

A: This is in the works as well. The player warnings will go hand in
hand with new software features designed to prevent mass datamining
by these sites.

-------------

Q: How did you detect that I was visiting this site? I don't like you
snooping on my computer. What else are you looking at?

A: PokerStars values player privacy (which is one reason we have
implemented this policy). Our terms of service to which you agreed
give us permission to examine certain aspects of your computer for
prohibited programs or accesses. We balance this with privacy by
collecting and storing ONLY that data which relates to prohibited
programs. We do not take screen captures of your screen. We do
not look in your browser cache. We do not take note of your visits
to websites other than those of prohibited programs. We do not
gather any data that is not directly related to prohibit program
mitigation.

Our Game Security Dept. is able to recognize players, who are using
SharkScope, similar like Bot-Users. Players are not permitted to use
SharkScope while the PokerStars client is running.

Men ellers er løsningen vel pt bare at have en ekstra pc tændt eller måske endda bare bruge vmware (virtuel machine)

"Q: Doesn't that mean that someone without scruples and willing to break the rules by hiding their use of these tools will gain an advantage?

A: Perhaps in the short term."


Lol.. Man kan vel åbenbart bare åbne en computer mere, og så er det ikke et problem..

Der må være noget foretningsmæssigt galt mellem de to sider siden denne underlige regl?

fordi sharkscope gav dem 'fingeren' da de ikke ville lave nogle opt. ind regler hehe

Lidt vammelt at man har givet dem lov til at kigge rundt på computeren. Men altså - en proxy, en ekstra computer osv.. Så er det problem vist løst.

PokerStars has been listening to recent player feedback regarding
SharkScope.

SharkScope remains a prohibited service while playing at PokerStars, but
as a result of player feedback, we have now reconsidered the methods that
we intend to use to prevent players from accessing unauthorised
profitability and ROI data.

We want to limit the amount of information that third party results
websites can publish because of our strong commitment to upholding the
integrity of our games.

We oppose websites publishing player profitability data by default for two
key reasons:

Firstly, many of our players simply don't want their ROI information to be
publicly available. They have a right to privacy of this information.

Secondly, it gives an unfair advantage to those players who are able to
obtain ROI data about players who have not consented for their information
to be shown.

We have been working with various sites that currently display player
profitability data and the vast majority of those sites have agreed to
modify the default settings for the display of player data. Sites who are
working with us have agreed that profitability data will only be available
on players who have themselves specifically opted in, thus giving their
consent for their profitability data to be displayed on that service. The
default setting will be that tournament cashes only will be displayed. The
sites who intend to comply with our data policy also agree to allow
players to opt out totally from their service, so that zero information
will be displayed about them. SharkScope has refused to remove player
profitability and ROI data by default and therefore their service now
falls into the category of prohibited for use in conjunction with the
PokerStars Client.

However, we understand that players have expressed concerns regarding our
recent detection methods, and we recognise that we made a mistake.
Consequently, we will explain the error, and correct it.

We detected players who visited the SharkScope website by having the
PokerStars Client monitor active network connections using built in
Windows functions for that purpose. The data returned by this function is
similar to that which is returned by the Windows accessory
called 'Netstat'. A periodic query to Windows determined whether the
SharkScope IP was being accessed. This was a YES/NO query, purely
regarding access to the specific SharkScope IP address. If a connection
to the SharkScope IP was detected, this fact and only this fact was sent
back to the PokerStars server. We then sent warning emails to players who
had accessed SharkScope in conjunction with the PokerStars Client.

This technique ensured that players accessing the SharkScope website were
detected without breaching their right to privacy. At no stage was a
player's internet browsing history ever queried, or transmitted from the
PokerStars Client to the PokerStars Server.

However, despite our assertion above, we understand that some players are
unhappy with the perception that PokerStars monitors their internet
browsing habits. Consequently, even though PokerStars does not monitor
players' internet browsing habits, we have decided to disable and
completely remove this feature of our software to avoid even the slightest
perception of privacy breaches. After all, our policy to prevent Third
Party Websites publishing player profitability data by default was based
on our strong belief that players have a right to privacy.

We also accept that some players who received a warning did not visit the
SharkScope website with the expressed intent to break PokerStars rules. We
would like to apologise to those players. It is SharkScope who should bear
the greater burden for breaking PokerStars' rules and our enforcement
emphasis will now focus on them.

To confirm, SharkScope will remain a prohibited service, for the reasons
listed above. We ask that players do not use it at all in conjunction with
PokerStars - the website, the HUD, or any other future tools that they
might develop.

However, we will divert our development efforts to limiting the
effectiveness of SharkScope by preventing their ability - or the ability
of certain other datamining sites - to extract the data from the
PokerStars client without either the permission of PokerStars, or the
players concerned.

We believe that this policy correction will deliver on our twin
commitments of listening to players who have overwhelmingly asked us to
prevent SharkScope from publishing their private information, but also
listening to players who were concerned about their browsing privacy.

As always, we welcome feedback on this policy, so please email us anytime
at [email protected]. We will work hard to deliver the best possible
poker games, with the highest standards of integrity now and into the
future.

Ok, så det er forbudt at bruge Sharkscope, men PokerStars kan/vil ikke tjekke om det bliver brugt. Så er det op til den enkeltes samvittighed om man bruger Sharkscope eller ej, og det kender vi vist godt svaret på...

Det lyder eddermadme underligt det her?

Der er nogle der må sidde med røde ører og en dårlig smag i munden? Det er virkeligt uprofessionelt...