Jeg har lige sendt en mail angående lowstacks til Ladbrokes, selv om jeg godt ved, det sikkert ikke fører til noget. Men hvad kan man egentlig gøre? Som det er nu, er visse borde decideret uspillelige i mine øjne (2+ af 6 spillere, der er lowstacks/bots). Er det bare mig, der er en donk? Hvis ikke, hvad kan vi gøre, hvis problemet fortsætter?
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Hello Ladbrokes
One hour ago I sat down to start playing 6 tables of NL400, planning to play a good number of hours. But I just stopped playing. Why? Here is why:
The games on Ladbrokes/Prima are increasingly being ruined by lowstack players, who buy in for the minimum (80 on a 400 table), and play in a way that makes it impossible/unprofitable for people with maximum buy in to play the way they would without the presence of the lowstacks. During my hour of play there was an average of TWO lowstacks per 6 player table, some of them three, some of them just one. I know I have addressed you on this subject before, but it did not help, so I try again.
The minimum buy in MUST be raised to AT LEAST 50bb on all tables (200 on a 400 table, 500 on a 1000 table, etc.). I would prefer 60bb as minimum, but I think 50bb will be enough. If this is done, the lowstack players cannot ruin the games they way they are now. I realise they generate a lot of rake for you, but from any long run perspective they are damaging the games in a degree that will COST you money rather than earn you. The fact that I sit here writing to you now rather than playing and raking should point to why this is so.
Furthermore, all Internet poker sites have to be concerned with people feeling secure and not being cheated in any way. This also involves certainty that there is a person on the other end of each nick. In short, people want to play people. If people find out they are up against bots (computer programs designed to play poker), they will quickly leave the poker site - and maybe online poker altogether. This is especially true of recreational players, who come to have some fun every once in a while. They like to chat and see if they can hit nice hands, and if they find out they are playing bots, they are gone before the river is dealt. Same, however, holds true for those of us trying to make a living playing poker. We too do not want to be exploited by bots, and we are a lot more aware about being so.
I hold no evidence that any of the lowstack "players" on Prima/Ladbrokes are bots, but it takes more than good imagination and positive thinking to believe none of them are. Just about everybody knows bots ARE used in Internet poker and the lowstacks approach is by far the easiest to create when making a bot (given the simpler decisions when playing a low stack). To believe this is not also happening on Ladbrokes/Prima is an illusion.
You are faced with a decision whether to act upon this problem or not. To believe it will solve itself is false. On the contrary it seems more and more players and bots are entering the games now. Long run this is destined to ruing the games completely. The reason lowstack play is popular is that it easily exploits the "normal" play of normal stack players. E.g. I would normally raise from seat 4 on a 6handed table with a hand like T9 of spades, but with a lowstack after me knowing my opening range (which hands I raise with) and fairly simply math can reraise/shove the correct range of hands forcing me to fold hands like T9 of spades. There is nothing I can do about that except adjust my opening range to his reraising range, which leads to a lot less play and to a game dominated by adjusting to lowstacks (to make their play less profitable) rather than playing actual poker. This is not something I wish to spend my time on long run, and I am sure most players agree with me here. Also, lowstack play makes for easy decisions preflop, often all in, and easy decisions on the flop (rarely any further, since all the money is now in the pot because of the low stack). This means lowstack play limits the better poker player's chance of outplaying his opponent. In short, lowstack play is profitable against bigger stacks, since there is only so much the bigger stacks can do against the lowstacks. However, if the bigger stacks stop playing, the lowstacks are left to play against each other and their edge is gone (since their edge is based on playing bigger stacks). Once this happens, they themselves will quickly stop playing (if you don't believe me, take a look at any table with 2-3 lowstacks left, they always stop immediately) and you have the end result: no one playing at all.
Rather than taking a passive approach of "wait and see what happens", Prima/Ladbrokes should be ahead of things and create a player friendly environment that allows for real poker play with all the fun that includes (bluffing, calling for draws, calling weak hands preflop in expectation of winning an occasional big pot when the you hit a big hand, etc.). I am sure other poker sites are considering this issue as well, and I am certain that whatever small loss you may have from losing the rake from the lowstack players/bots will easily be overcome by new players attracted by a lowstack/bot free environment. Also, this marks a firm step against bots which is obviously good PR. On a whole this would be a step forward for the network.
I hope this mail is sent to whoever is making the decisions in this regard. I also hope these changes will be enforced. I fear, though, that they will not, and I am currently considering if a collective protest of some number of players will have an effect. This could be a "no play day" or it could take other shapes. I will have to consider further which form of protest is more effective, but I feel this is so important to the game that something has to be done if you do not act upon the problem.
Regards, Tobias Petersen!
Lowstacks, what to do?
10-03-2009 20:54
#1|
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10-03-2009 22:02
#3|
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20bb min er fint imho. Det eneste du kan requeste er specielle 50bb min tables.
Synes du overreagerer en lille smule må jeg indrømme :-)
10-03-2009 22:11
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tl;dr, men du skyder dig selv i foden med
"and play in a way that makes it impossible/unprofitable for people with maximum buy in to play the way they would without the presence of the lowstacks"
Det er dit problem at tilpasse dig. Det er derimod sitets problem, at spillene bliver ved med at være til at slå på hhv. kort og langt sigt for fisk og hajer. Det gør de ikke, hvis shortstackeriet fortsætter sin udbredelse, og du overreagerer derfor selvfølgelig ikke (selvom du er en muppet).
Til gengæld er det komplet naivt at tro, at din mail får nogen som helst form for konsekvenser, ligesom det er spild af krudt at true med en boykot.
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